Wednesday, September 2, 2009

American Islam in Action

Watch the video, and then imagine what would have happened if security at a Christian gathering had tried to treat a group of Muslims asking questions this way.


Randall Gerard said...

deport them all, now.

Seth Ben-Ezra said...

Even if they are American citizens?

Deport them to where?

Randall Gerard said...

The ones who are american citizens can stay. Everyone else goes back where they came from. America has 9 million muslims already. We dare not let them grow to the 25 million plus that are in Europe. There's is an all-or-nothing religion. There is no common ground between christians and muslims. Christians believe an individual should be free to worship according to conscience. Muslims have no such belief. Their belief is incompatible with ours, end of story. The most compassionate thing to do with their adherants is send them home. The most compassionate thing for our people is to let them go.

p.s. our country had sensible immigration laws before 1965. One more bad legacy from dead Ted.

Seth Ben-Ezra said...

Of course, Christianity is *also* an "all-or-nothing" religion. So, rather than deporting the Muslims that are streaming to our land, why not strive to convert them? It worked for Rifqa Bary, right?

Yes, the Muslim migration poses serious problems to the Church in this country. But think like a Christian, not a fearful American. Could this be God's judgment for our idolatry? Sure could. But could this also be the beginning of a radical Muslim conversion to Jesus? Could be! If the Church is working at being faithful, then Jesus will prevail over the followers of Mohammed.

Gravelbelly said...

GOOD exchange. Can we keep the conversation going?

Here are some questions for either Randall or Seth, or both:

Why are Muslims making such gains in "Christian" America?

What is it about American Christianity that it can't seem to hold its own against ungodly foreign system?

What will it take to reverse this?

Is the solution spiritual/covenantal or political? (or both?)

Randall Gerard said...

Seth, Christianity hasn't been an 'all or nothing' religion in the public square for at least 200 years. Officially, we are an agnostic country and we recognize any and every god brought to our shores. Foriegn idolaters are streaming to our lands (ours meaning white european home-lands) because they want to take what we have built. They would rather do that then build up their own countries. It is the judgement of God that we don't recognize theft when we see it; it is the judgement of God that we have killed so many of our own unborn children; it is the judgement of God that we are getting older and shrinking in population while all our enemies are getting younger and more numerous; that part is true enough. I agree with that.

But whether they convert to Christ or not, they will still be foriegners who have no interest in preserving our civilization. They are foriegn to our ways, our history, our blood heritage as well as our religion. We westerners shouldn't expect any of them to give two hoots about our civilization, because they don't. They have their own ways; and for the most part those ways aren't compatible with ours. I find it ironic that you would accuse me of not thinking like a christian, when most christian americans seem more then willing to embrace foriegners at the expense of their own children and grand-children. Do we not have the right to exist unmolested in our own lands? Or is it only white europeans who must relinquish their children's inheritance to foriegners? That doesn't sound very christian to me. A christian takes care of his own blood kin first. That's what Paul taught Timothy in 1 Timothy 5:8. Whoever doesn't provide for his own, is WORSE THEN AN UNBELIEVER. Or, how about the Proverb: 'A good man leaves an inheritance for his children's children'?

There's no question that Jesus will prevail over the followers of Muhammad. But the survival of western civilization depends on the survival of white europeans. If our people die out, western civilization goes with it. Unfortunately, we won't see what a devastating loss this really is until it's too late. The western church has been gelded by the multiculturalists. When it's no longer considered 'christian' to defend your women and children against invaders, we are indeed salt that has lost it's savor.

Seth Ben-Ezra said...

>But the survival of western civilization depends on the survival of white europeans. If our people die out, western civilization goes with it.


While I am a Christian, I am not primarily of "white European" stock. And, to be perfectly frank, while I am totally absorbed in the conquest of Jesus Christ over all humanity, I couldn't hardly care about the survival of "western civilization" or "white European culture". Isn't it "white European culture" that gave us the Holocaust and the imperialist colonialism practiced by the British, French, and Dutch?

You say, "A christian takes care of his own blood kin first." My father's line is of Puerto Rican and Turkish stock. So, those that you are denouncing are my blood kin. But perhaps you should take a couple steps back from your kinist agenda and recall that "Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all." (Colossians 3:11) The Gospel explodes past national lines and establishes a unity that is greater than racial identity or blood ties. (Matthew 10:34-37). Right?

And if we're going to argue that western civilization is superior to others because it embraced Christianity, I ask which is worse: the culture that never embraced Christianity, or the one that turned its back on Christianity after tasting its benefits?

What's so great about western civilization that Jesus should preserve it?

Randall Gerard said...


I didn't think you were of white european stock, given your sir-name. But thanks for your honesty. And thanks also for proving my point; you've made it abundantly clear that you don't give a damn about my people or the civilization we have built. If it were otherwise, you wouldn't be asking 'what's so great about western civilization', even as you enjoy it's benefits. Gee, I don't know Seth; how about, it's mine and I like it? How about, my fathers and mothers helped build it, AND MUCH OF IT WAS CONSCIOUSLY BUILT UPON THE BIBLE, and the Bible says I should honor MY FATHERS AND MOTHERS? Furthermore, western civilization is the ONLY CIVILIZATION ON EARTH built upon the religion Jesus founded. I don't claim it was or is perfect, but it is (or rather was) an attempt to build nations on the rock who is Christ. I know it's popular to bash white people today, but you really should give us credit for more then just the holocaust and colonialism. If I'm not mistaken, a white man invented that computer you're typing on.

I also don't deny that members of other nations can be and are my brothers and sisters in the Lord. That is what the verse you quoted means. It doesn't mean that ethnic distinctions, gender differences and economic realities dissapear altogether in Christ. Christ didn't come to make everyone the SAME. He came to redeem members of every nation; thereby creating unity even among the diversity he has already established (Genesis 10). But the christian faith doesn't create unity by erasing diversity; in this you are much mistaken. You and I are brothers in the Lord; but it's obvious we have different natural allegiances, and that is how it should be. Fortunately, we can still reason with each other and be at peace despite our differences, thanks to a shared faith.

And before you accuse me of a 'kinist agenda', and also denouncing your kin, you should consider Paul's love for his own kin in Romans 9:1-3. And while you're at it, check out Jesus's response to the caananite woman in Matt. 15:21-28. It is no sin to love and prefer your own above others, as both of these passages make clear, and as you yourself admit, when you claim the turkish and puerto rican peoples as your own. Furthermore, loving your own is NOT denouncing others. I love and prefer my wife above all other women; that doesn't mean I HATE my other female relatives, or the wives of others. You are correct that blood ties do not trump our love for God; For loving God is the 1st and greatest commandment. But I deny that loving God means I must honor your father and mother more then my own, or care more about your children then I do my own.